Dr. Albert Ellis (1913–2007) was the founder of Rational Emotive Behavioral Therapy, the first of the cognitive therapies. He received his PhD from Columbia University in 1947 and began to practice classical psychoanalysis. Disappointed with the lack of positive results, citing psychoanalysis as “unscientific and even antiscientific” and too long winded and inefficient, he began to formulate his own approach, which he introduced in 1955 as Rational Therapy. It focused on helping people change their dysfunctional behavior and disturbed emotions by teaching them to identify their irrational beliefs and to replace them with rational ones. Author of close to 80 books on a variety of psychotherapy issues, he is held in the highest esteem in his field. In 2001 Psychology Today stated, “It’s safe to say that no individual—not even Freud himself—has had a greater impact on modern psychotherapy.” Dr. Ellis died some months after our interview with him.

MB: Tell me about the worst case of stage fright you’ve ever experienced. When was it? What were the circumstances? How did you deal with it?

AE: The worst time was when I was a child in the first grade, and I knew the answers to all kinds of questions; but I never raised my hand because I was so afraid of speaking badly. When I was a student at college I was president of a political group, but scared shitless of making speeches. I forced myself to make them, telling myself that I would do my best, however uncomfortable, to do what I wanted to be more comfortable at—if I died, I died! Not only did I survive, but I discovered that I had a talent for talking in public, and once I was over my fear of it, I enjoyed doing so.

MB: Did you have any difficulty as an adult?

AE: Practically none, because I’ve made myself do all kinds of exercises over the years, including my shame-attacking exercise, where you deliberately do something foolish, ridiculous, or silly in public, and work at not feeling ashamed. Since I’ve done those exercises, I’m practically never nervous except once in a very great while.

MB: You mentioned the shame-attacking exercises. Could you tell us about them?

AE: Well, you might get onto the subway and yell out the stops—“42nd Street!”—and then stay on the train. Or you could go to a hotel lobby and say to a stranger, “I just got out of the loony bin. What month is this?” Or you could wear peculiar clothing.

All the while you work on not feeling ashamed. By doing these exercises many times you get over that crap.

MB: Did you ever have clients that had a great deal of problems getting over stage fright, and how did you work with them?

AE: I’ve had some clients who were practically numb and dumb. They just didn’t speak at all, they were so afraid of speaking. Most of them were just afraid of important audiences, and things like that. But I show them that they are just about always telling themselves that, “If I speak badly, I will be no good. And if people don’t like what I say, they’ll put me down. And they’ll be right. I deserve to be put down.”

So I show them that they’re always taking a preference to do well— which is fine in itself—and making it into an absolute must; and they put their own worth on the line, which they never have to do. Then I always give them homework assignments to get out and speak and speak and speak.